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Housecarl 1066 Profile
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Location: Northern-most Saxon border.
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


AnneG, Gyrth, Housecarl, Athelstan

we/i in the retarded knowledge abnormalnormanmoronforum subscribe to the vomit-inducing and arrogantly pompous opinion [sign in to see URL] have forgotten what laughable hagiography we were about to spew up due to liking my own mentally-unstable opinions too much, and rambling on and on and on in a transparently pretencious and degenerating rabid rant- even though i don't have our own website to destroy.

[sign in to see URL](President & previously bullied rear-Admiral; AbnormalNormanmoronforum)



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http://1066andallthat.forumfree.co.uk/
Apr/22/2006, 11:35 am Link to this post Send Email to Housecarl 1066   Send PM to Housecarl 1066
 
Gyrth Profile
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Lydia?


Please tell me, in detail, what the "common people" learned from the Norman aristocracy... other than how to make them richer? In detail. Please. If you're capable of it. To the point: disprove this statement:
quote:

...the common people died off in droves as they were starved, had their villages burned or confiscated, and their land taken.

Disprove it. List sources. Otherwise, you're talking drivel. Your total ignorance, refusal to accept facts, and lack of historical context is astounding. That you can even spell "peurile" is amazing, but again, it so aptly describes yourself that you don't get a gold star for it.

What a waste of cyberspace.
Apr/25/2006, 6:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gyrth   Send PM to Gyrth
 
mousteriana Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Gyrth and Lydia:

I can think of a lot of things "the common people" learned from the Normans. But what they learned doesn't strike me as being particularly edifying. Unless learning how to abuse power and authority is edifying.
Anne G
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thewilliam theredforum2002 Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


This passage is a classic from ‘William the Conqueror’ by David C. Douglas. Pages 205-206.

‘ The key to William’s success in the campaign of the autumn of 1066 is to be found in his appreciation of the strategic importance of London. London dominated the communications of the country inasmuch as it was the nodal point at which the Roman roads from Yorkshire, the Midlands and East Anglia converged to cross the Thames and link up with the roads that gave access to the Channel ports that were in turn essential to William’s own contact with his duchy. Yet at the same time London was too large both in area and population for William to contemplate its capture by direct assault with the force that he had at his command. He therefore determined to isolate the capital. He moved up to the south end of London Bridge, where he beat off a body of Edgar Aethling’s troops which sallied out to attack him. Then having fired Southwark, he moved westward, devastating northern Hampshire and passing on into Berkshire. Turning north, he then made the crossing of the Thames at Wallingford and thence, in his circuitous movement, he at last came to Berkhamstead. It was a brutal march, but William’s military objective had been gained. The capital had been isolated, and the results were immediately to be disclosed.’

What is remarkable about this passage in our viewpoint, is that it makes it understandable to the reader how what followed in this historical phase was made possible: the submission of the remnants of the Angle-Saxon-Dane ruling class led, primarily, by Edwin and Morcar and the Conqueror’s relatively uncontested, subsequent march into the capital and the next episode in the revolutionization process in Angleland. What it also no less cogently leads us to deduce, is how the Conqueror used the tactics he utilised during the revolutionization of Normandy 1054-58.
At the battles of Mortemer (1054) and Varaville (1058). In both battles, he delayed his offensive in order to let the enemy expend its resources in the fruitless attempt to commit him to battle in unfavourable circumstances. The clash with Edgar Aethling’s troops indicated to him that there were continuing divisions inside what remained of the Angle-Saxon-Dane ruling class(primarily but by no means exclusively Edwin and Morcar’s anti-House of Cerdic position and that House’s strategy) which he could exploit by a military ‘detour’ of London as opposed to a direct attack which may well have led to a unity or quasi-unity socio-military formation and a tougher struggle for final victory.

Martin Tilston, First Secretary, Sammy, Bill H, Hugo (all in personal capacity)


Apr/29/2006, 8:37 am Link to this post Send Email to thewilliam theredforum2002   Send PM to thewilliam theredforum2002
 
mousteriana Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


WRTF:

Well yeah. David Douglas implies(if you hadn't taken that quote out of context, as usual), that basically, William scared the people of London into submission. They didn't want London burned down, along with everything that surrounded it. So, having no alternative(so they thought, at least), they submitted. What else could they do?
Anne G
Apr/29/2006, 6:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
Athelstan937 Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


TWTRF,the Normans were repulsed at Southwark and had to go on a roundabout route to cross the Thames at Wallingford.
Athelstan
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mousteriana Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Athelstan:

And they still scared the English into submission. Most of the houses in England were built of wood, not stone, and once the Londeners discovered that William & Co. were setting fire to any place they happened to ride through, I suspect the Londoners didn't want that to happen to them
Anne G emoticon
Apr/30/2006, 5:00 am Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
thewilliam theredforum2002 Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


We especially like this selection from the formidable, ‘William 11 Rufus, the Red King’, a book by Emma Mason. It is vital reading for any pro-Red, whether inside or outside of our Forum, who wants to pursue, incorporating scientific method and analysis, his rise and tragic demise and their impact on the march of History.

“The further back in time a historical subject existed, the sparser and more problematic the sources become, so that detection and deduction increasingly come into play. No one can claim to be truly comprehensive when writing on a subject so far back in time as William [sign in to see URL] readers who enjoy detective stories will find plenty of conflicting sources here from which to draw their own conclusions. The ultimate challenge comes in deciding what did happen in the New Forest on 2nd August 1100. Did the abbot of Gloucester, the old woman and the huntsmen know something which was covered up by the establishment of the next reign? And who were those who transmitted the name of Raoul D’Equesnes so discreetly down the generations until responsibility for the king’s death was no longer a politically sensitive issue?”. ( from Page 8)

In our view, D’ Equesnes is a'passe-partout' par excellence.

[sign in to see URL], Sammy, Drogo, John G (all in personal capacity)
May/6/2006, 10:52 am Link to this post Send Email to thewilliam theredforum2002   Send PM to thewilliam theredforum2002
 
mousteriana Profile
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


WRTF:

I haven't been able to find a copy of this book anywhere, so I can't comment. And, if you're speaking archaeologically(which is something I know a bit about), what Emma Mason seems to be saying is perfectly true. The farther you go back in time, the sparser become the number of artifacts you have to work with, whether this consists of the tools people used or the written records that are available. However, the plain fact is that William "Rufus" was even more unpopular than his father had been; he seems to have surrounded himslef withh "cronies" like Ralph "Flambard" who were well-known for their corruption. Another outrageious character of this time was Robert Belleme, who I have mentioned before. For these reasons alone, the man was not popular, especially with your beloved "Cluniacs". Churchmen disliked him for his apparent slighting of churchmen and relilgion in general. Now really! This is "revolutionary"?(Unless, of course, you are thinking in terms of the French Revolution of 1789?
Anne G
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


No Anne G our Forum considers that The Norman Revolution (a revolution from above) and The French Revolution (a revolution from below) were both in their different ways and different consequences for History and its progress, equally significant.

Bill H (personal capacity)
May/9/2006, 7:53 pm Link to this post Send Email to thewilliam theredforum2002   Send PM to thewilliam theredforum2002
 


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