Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3 ... 5  6  7  8  9 

 
Housecarl 1066 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 02-2006
Location: Northern-most Saxon border.
Posts: 620
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


 
quote:

as with any book you dont have to agree with everything in it to say that its a great book.



THAT'S a first for you dumb Franco-losers!

Frank Barlow= Billy2= GAY emoticon

---
http://1066andallthat.forumfree.co.uk/
Feb/19/2008, 5:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to Housecarl 1066   Send PM to Housecarl 1066
 
mousteriana Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 936
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Housecarl:

Frank Barlow is actually a pretty respectable historian.
Anne G
Feb/19/2008, 11:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
Housecarl 1066 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 02-2006
Location: Northern-most Saxon border.
Posts: 620
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


quote:

mousteriana wrote:

Housecarl:

Frank Barlow is actually a pretty respectable historian.
Anne G



Yes, I know he is, I was highlighting the WalterMitty's amazing admission of actually likings something even though it slagged off GayWilly...

---
http://1066andallthat.forumfree.co.uk/
Feb/20/2008, 6:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Housecarl 1066   Send PM to Housecarl 1066
 
mousteriana Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 936
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Ironaxe:

They may be, to use a "web phrase" "quote mining". But then, they've apparently "quote mined" several respectable historians. David Douglas comes to mind.
Anne G
Feb/20/2008, 7:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
Housecarl 1066 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 02-2006
Location: Northern-most Saxon border.
Posts: 620
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


quote:

mousteriana wrote:

They may be, to use a "web phrase" "quote mining". But then, they've apparently "quote mined" several respectable historians. David Douglas comes to mind.
Anne G



Anne

The talentless WTF have repeatedly proved to us that they've ripped off (plagiarised) every historian that has written anything which they can even remotely copy and twist to portray the bastard and his GAY, hated son in their own image...

---
http://1066andallthat.forumfree.co.uk/
Feb/20/2008, 8:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Housecarl 1066   Send PM to Housecarl 1066
 
mousteriana Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 936
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Housecarl:

That's what I mean by "quote mining". Interesting that they haven't tried this with Henry I.
Anne G
Feb/20/2008, 10:36 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
WilliamtheRed Forum1 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 10-2007
Posts: 124
Karma: -3 (+0/-3)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Bill and Martin, we have been fortunate enough to have read Berenger's 'De sacra coena' (On the Lord's Supper).Its a brilliant insight into the thinking of Lanfranc and the inspiration for his and by implication the Conqueror's attack on his refutal of St Paschasius Radbertus' work.Berenger's tone has an almost modernist ring to it as he reads the Bible's account of it very much in a "whats beneath the text" frame of mind and has all the features of a document far ahead of its time.It almost enters territory now claimed by documents such as The Dead Sea Scrolls.It makes you wonder to what extent the teachings and debates were handed down by word of mouth generation to generation which engendered such insights.It was understandable that Lanfranc should oppose it but since his and the Conqueror's beliefs were rooted in Cluniacism,you do question how far they weighed their counter-arguement which of course won the day at the time. There have been numerous discussions on this Chatboard and other locations about the role of Hugues de Cluny,Saint Stephen,Saint Cecilia etc and their influence on the Conqueror in the light of his moral and physical support of Jewish people and their Faith.Perhaps the connective tissue in all of this is really Berenger? He has been eliminated from the founders of Protestantism by the likes of Luther and others,would it be so out of the ordinary for him to similarly be removed on what is historically a significant but nevertheless smaller issue in comparison.
In any event we cannot believe and hope not that the last word has been written on that great thinker of Corbie. (curiously to relate that Radbertus was also from there)
Marita Keel,First Secretary,Dennis Keel,Pereobu (all in personal capacity)

Last edited by WilliamtheRed Forum1, Feb/21/2008, 11:07 pm
Feb/21/2008, 11:05 pm Link to this post Send Email to WilliamtheRed Forum1   Send PM to WilliamtheRed Forum1
 
mousteriana Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 936
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


WRTF1:

I don't follow this. . . . ?????
Anne G
Feb/22/2008, 1:32 am Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
WilliamtheRed Forum1 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 10-2007
Posts: 124
Karma: -3 (+0/-3)
Reply | Quote
posticon Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


Mousteriana we would recommend you 'burn some midnight oil' and read up on Berenger de Tours also known as Berengar and Berengarius and then you will be aware of the magnitude of what you are missing.
The contributions of our Forum on Berenger takes us away and towards the contrast that Bill H mentioned in his original text between Anselm and Lanfranc.
It is a remarkable fact that neither Douglas' biography on the Conqueror or Barlow's biography of the Red mentions this extraordinary theologian despite the fact that he was a contemporary of both rulers, dying a mere 4 months after the Conqueror himself.

In examining transubstantiation as a godly concept, Berenger was surely employing not a little historical information vital to religious belief. The bread and wine were certainly seen as being indicative of the presence of the Lord but what rank in the hierarchy of presences we would ask do tassles? Did the Conqueror in all of his battles believe God was with him? At Senlac he wore the tassles on his helmet to symbolise the twin horns of the Old and New Testaments and imprint the very Fear Of God in the minds and spirits of the enemy. He also obviously took Mass before the battle and probably all of his battles not least at Varaville which made Senlac and its aftermath possible. That he needed an extra symbol of godly presence on the battlefield where his army triumphed and The Norman Revolution 1058-1100 took hold in Angleland, was a measure of how flexible symbols of godly presence could be to someone like Berenger and made him cogitate on the singular validity of the Eucharist as indicating godly presence. Of course the other symbol recognised was the perpetual burning of the holy lamp in the chancel of religious buildings. That Berenger went to the core of the matter by polemicising on the Eucharist was clearly unacceptable to Lanfranc and the Conqueror because in their perception it threw the other symbols into question or had that potential consequence.For Lanfranc and the Conqueror a holy purpose and temporal rule were not opposite but complementary. Indeed, it might be deduced that they merged in many cases such as when he issued his "1000 candles" statement(1087) to Philippe 1 which was very much about a mortal struggle with The Frankish King as well as being a component of the most reverential and spiritual ceremony: The Mass.

Berenger was observing the world in his refutation of transubstantiation to renew the Faith that had served him well for so long and which he never abandoned. To some observers it might seem to a certain measure illogical for Lanfranc and the Conqueror to reject Berenger's worldly based conclusion on the origin of such a godly principle which he firmly based in Mind and Spirit rather than the rule of ritual. They had both seen the importance after all of godly rule employing temporal values (1075)and Lanfranc's support of the Red in 1088 emphasises that fact. But in the end what counted was how it was seen outside their holy leadership in the wider world of Roman Catholicism with all the gravity which that involved.

Dinsdale,Lydia Giles,Gerry,Bev Morton,Franc B(all in personal capacity)
Feb/23/2008, 1:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to WilliamtheRed Forum1   Send PM to WilliamtheRed Forum1
 
mousteriana Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 936
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red


WRTF:

Are you folks really serious? Because if you are, it seems to me that you have some kind of "agenda" here. And it doesn't have much to do with the realities of that particular period, in that time and place. Yeah, there was a lot of "religious expression", but a good deal of it was politcis as usual disguised as religious expression. But perhaps you didn't know that?
Anne G
Feb/23/2008, 9:15 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2  3 ... 5  6  7  8  9 





You are not logged in (login)