thewilliam theredforum2002
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
Tom Paine was correctly booted out of France when he started to preach his American version of what a revolution was supposed to mean to the leaders of the 1789 French Revolution and was lucky to escape with his head.There are many kinds of Revolution and the fact that it is such a huge topic means that it cannot be confined to one so-called 'expert'.I admire Paine but I do not glorify him the way you pro-Usurper lot do.He certainly does not command omniscience on the subject either.This matter has been addressed in its Norman and other contexts previously on the Board and you should read those postings.Dictionary definitions are multiple.Here's one that is fundamentally different from the one that Gyrth presents.
revolution: forcible overthrow of a government or social order.Sound familiar?
I wont dignify Housecarl0000's usual, deranged,personalized claptrap with a response.
S.Walsh (personal capacity)
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May/17/2006, 6:34 pm
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Housecarl 1066
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
quote: I wont dignify Housecarl0000's usual, deranged,personalized claptrap with a response.
LOL...Wrong again- not only do you fail spot ironic humour in my PM about the "Up yours delors" comment(quote from 'The Sun', which I don't read, as it's right wing, and as dumb as your solo 'forum') but you couldn't even debate history accurately... like an adult... with any maturity, balanced opinion or...intelligent research!
When was Forkbeard's Cluniast revolutionary brother killed again? LOL
Go back to your fantasy Ladybird novels...arrogant dunce!!!!!
Last edited by Housecarl 1066, May/17/2006, 8:51 pm
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May/17/2006, 8:28 pm
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mousteriana
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
Housecarl and WRTF(but especially for the latter):
I don't recall that Paine was booted out of France for anything. I know he got into trouble in England for coming out against organized religion. This is one of the reasons he has such a "mixed" reputation today. And I don't "admire" or "worship" him in any way. I was simply pointing out that, in Common Sense, he made a direct connection between the events of 1066 and the way the then British government was acting toward its then colonies. This is not worship or admiration; it's just pointing out a historical fact(since the WRTF is so fond of what they consider to be factual history). Of course, I also --- and this is probably what sparked the wrath of WRTF --- pointed out that what the Norman invasion accomplished was not a "revolution" per se, but the American and French Revolutions certainly were. I could go on at some length on this subject, but I won't. I think everybody who reads this will get the general idea.
Anne G
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May/18/2006, 12:50 am
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Gyrth
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WTF...
...by your definition, the Nazi occupation of France was a German revolution and Hitler it's liberator. So be it. You win.
And there's only one thing to say to this:quote: I admire Paine but I do not glorify him the way you pro-Usurper lot do.
Get help. Seriously.
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May/19/2006, 5:19 am
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mousteriana
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
Gyrth:
Funny. I don't recall very many people in France thinking that the Nazi occupation of their country was any "revolution". In fact the Occupation spawned the French Resistance, among other things.
OTOH, the WRTF seems to be so ahistorical in its understanding of the events pre and post 1066, that they would fail to comprehend the implied ocntradictions in their statements.
Anne G
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May/19/2006, 8:55 pm
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thewilliam theredforum2002
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
Housecarl, the only thing thats "ironic" about your contributions is that they elicit any responses from our Forum at all.Gyrth,you are obviously a rent-an-arguement aficionado otherwise your barmy response beggars belief.Steve seems to me to be referring to the fact that dictionary definitions are only as relevant as the dictionaries from which they are extracted.The dynamics of historical development are different,since it was you who raised dictionary definitions instead of the dynamics of historical development, it is you who need to eat humble pie.
In the case of The Norman Revolution which our Forum believes to be a "revolution from above" a ruling class was annihilated and replaced by a revolutionary class(the Normans and their allies).Regardless of the other measures which are nevertheless vital ( expropriation of the land and wealth of the annihilated ruling class, Jewish immigration,de facto union with The Kingdom Of The Franks,beginning of the end of Slavery in Angleland etc)that achievement stands as an indisputable proof of revolution.The Nazis did not annihilate a ruling class they defeated it and forced/cajoled it to collaborate.Neither did they expropriate its land and wealth.The French Revolution was a "revolution from below" which also annihilated a ruling class.The fact that you do not see or choose not to see the direct similiarity between the Norman 1066 and French 1789 variants only proves you need to get on a learning curve.
Rob (personal capacity)
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May/21/2006, 2:03 pm
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Housecarl 1066
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
WTF -the only thing thats "ironic" about your contributions is that they elicit any responses at all...mainly due to your historical cluelessness, retardedness and pretence at having a forum....but no website! ;-)
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May/21/2006, 2:47 pm
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mousteriana
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Re: Reading the Conqueror and the Red
Housecarl and WRTF:
I don't know what dictionaries the WRTF is using, but I know of no dictionary of any sort or from any source, that defines a revolution as being "from above". Unless, of course, you are comparing the events around 1066 as a "hostile corporate takeover". Which might actually be more accurate.
Anne G
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May/21/2006, 10:37 pm
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Gyrth
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they what?
quote: The Nazis did not annihilate a ruling class they defeated it and forced/cajoled it to collaborate.Neither did they expropriate its land and wealth.The French Revolution was a "revolution from below" which also annihilated a ruling class.The fact that you do not see or choose not to see the direct similiarity between the Norman 1066 and French 1789 variants only proves you need to get on a learning curve.
Oh, excuse me, are you saying that the Nazis did NOT confiscate the gold, paintings, and homes of the rich - especially the Jews - and lived in them during the occupation all over Europe? Are you saying that masterpieces from all over Europe WEREN'T transported in trains to Berlin? Are you saying that the intelligentsia of occupied Europe, including France, were not rounded up and sent to camps as political prisoners? Not to mention the thousands who FLED to England and America just before the war. Is that what you're saying??? If that's not a case of annihilating the ruling class, I don't know what is. And had the Americans and Russians not bailed your butt out and the Germans had continued to occupy France, it most definitely WOULD have been YOUR particular twisted kind of revolution, with the Mona Lisa hanging in Herr Goering's chateau to this day - exactly what you would call a "revolution from above."
And if the English had "collaborated," their "ruling class" wouldn't have been annihilated either, since William's initial intention was to rule through them. A revolution implies that forces FROM WITHIN THE KINGDOM OR COUNTRY have taken over, NOT AN INVADING FORCE.
In other words, WTF, you're a narrow-minded, misinformed brainwashed sycophantic idiot.
Good grief.
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May/22/2006, 5:52 pm
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